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The One Ring Forums:
Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
The Shire and Fairytale England:
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Silvered-glass
Lorien
May 10, 7:51pm
Views: 60792
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The Shire and Fairytale England
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1. What is the change in Bilbo? Is it just that he's creating verse? Has he come to have a new appreciation of the Shire itself outside of Bag End? Do friendships with the Dwarves, Beorn Gandalf, and the Elves indicate that Bilbo the solitary bachelor has learned to form relationships?
I think Bilbo may have seen the Shire through new eyes, but his heart was never truly there afterwards, though he found the place pleasant enough and in particular liked his comfortable home. Without Bag End to tie him to the Shire, Bilbo might have left a lot earlier than he eventually did.
I think the change in Bilbo really was that he had had his mind opened and indeed started creating verse as well as researching and translating Elvish history.
2.Is Bilbo buying the affection of these mercenary youngsters? Do the Hobbiton hobbits resent Bilbo because he's "Tookish"? Are they jealous of his wealth?
I think Bilbo is able to get along with his younger relatives because they are open-minded enough to listen to his stories. I think the other hobbits find Bilbo's talk about distant lands and ancient times dreadfully dull and couldn't care less, and that is the real problem they have with him.
3. How do you think about the Shire when viewed only through The Hobbit?
The Hobbit gives very little information on the Shire and the surrounding areas. You get the impression that the Shire is a part of a vast civilized and peaceful region ruled presumably from the West by the distant king Bilbo casually mentions at one point. To the East is an untamed wilderness with the Misty Mountains functioning as a major barrier, but to the South is more civilization with multiple populated human kingdoms that presumably as far as the reader knows get along with each other the same as ordinary countries, so while there might be an occasional war, there is no suggestion of anything like Mordor existing.
The world of The Hobbit feels deep down less like a separate fantasy world than the world of LotR and more like a historical version of our own world seen through a fairytale filter, where civilized areas like England have hobbits as normal citizens but dragons and the disruptions caused by them are located safely away in distant places such as the Kola Peninsula.
4. Do the Shire and its residents seem to have changed between Bilbo's return in The Hobbit and Bilbo's departure in A Long Expected Party? Has the opinion of the "narrator" changed?
I think the Shire seems much the same, but a little less "modern". The likes of "Messrs Grubb, Grubb, and Burrowes" (a law firm?) from The Hobbit are presumably still around and doing their business during LotR, but the narrative of LotR never goes to that kind of places. Bilbo's immaculately crafted will kept the lawyers at bay, and so we didn't have a chapter about Frodo fighting his relatives to retain the right to Bag End.
5. Does The Prologue change how you perceive the Shire? How about narrative style of A Long Expected Party and The Shadow of the Past?
The Prologue has a huge effect on how the Shire comes across. The Prologue establishes the Shire as a separate place with a separate identity, not just an intentionally vague fairytale version of the English countryside. The Prologue also plants the first seeds, to be watered later on in the main story, starting from the early chapters, about the Shire not being as safe and stable as it might have appeared in The Hobbit, but an island of civilization in the wilderness.
6. Does Bilbo and/or Bilbo's experience of the Shire change between The Hobbit and The Fellowship of the Ring?
Bilbo grew older and started caring even less about acting respectable for the sake of his neighbors. Finally his caring reached the negative values and he intentionally startled everyone with his disappearance act.
7. Would Frodo, as a character, have fit into the Shire of The Hobbit? Is he a more nuanced character than Bilbo as the Shire is more nuanced in The Fellowship of the Ring?
I think Frodo would have fit in just fine, but his inclusion would have changed how the Shire was portrayed by making it more nuanced and less like an intentionally generic relatable backdrop made to be left behind for the real plot.
The Hobbit has a major underlying theme about fantasy world (the world of adventure) vs. real world, and in this the Shire represents the reader's home and real world.
8. Did the Shire "grow-up" because The Fellowship of the Ring is a different sort of story than The Hobbit? Did Tolkien "grow-up" as a writer?
I think it's just that LotR is a different and more serious type of book from The Hobbit and meant for an adult audience.
Ham from Farmer Giles of Ham would be another point of comparison. The short book Farmer Giles of Ham is meant for an older audience, but it isn't written as a serious story, so there are some similarities to how the Shire is portrayed. Ham is noticeably less bucolic though and in some ways closer to real more distant history, though it lies in a vague area of spacetime and fails to conform to any one historical period. The initial normal life in Ham contains no dragons, though there is a talking dog, and it is possible to seek out giants and dragons any time one wishes just by heading to the mountains, and sometimes those monsters in turn fail to stay in their customary place.
9.Do you overlook the faults of gossip, gluttony and greed in Shire hobbits? Are they part of the charm of hobbits along with toughness, good cheer, and loyal friendships?
I don't overlook the faults. I have a Bilbo-like temperament, and while I like the Shire, I've always found the Elves more fascinating and also felt drawn to Gondor.
(This post was edited by Silvered-glass on May 10, 7:52pm)
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